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| Un Debat Raioo?: O' Tarik Kifach O'3lach Rabba La7ya?! |
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| 12:00:00 AM Tuesday May 27, 2003 |
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Assiadi, Kifash ? sahla : rir mabkitch kan7essan :-) amma 3lach
there's some reasons, here are a lot:
- Je suis fain?ant, je n'aime pas me raser et quand je suis mroufel ?a
gratte et c'est joli ? voir, autant la laisser pousser et aller chez le
coiffeur une fois par moi pour faire un peu de nettoyage :-)
- Les anciens marocains disaient ? qn pour le d?fier "ila kdarti dir
hadi rir ji hassan lia l7ayti" De plus une des condamnations prononc?es
par le cadi consistait ? raser la barbe de celui qui a commi la faute et
le faire d?ambuler ? dos d'?ne dans la ville avec lberra7 qui crit ses
m?faits et avertit les gens de ce qui peut leur arriver ... Conclusion :
raser la barbe ? un marocain c'est une atteinte tr?s grave ? sa dignit?.
Quand je pense qu'aujourd'hui se raser est synonyme de modernit? ... je
sais, avoir la barbe n'est pas non plus synonyme d'authenticit?, mais je
pr?f?re la barbe quand m?me :-)
- Beaucoup de gens qui me rencontrent dans la rue, qui ne connaissent
pas mon nom et qui veulent m'appeler disent "wa le7ya" ou "a lwalid" ou
encore "a l7ajj", la premi?re me fait marrer car on r?duit une personne
b9eddou ou 9amtou ? sa simple "le7ya", la seconde est un t?moignage de
respect que j'appr?cie et la troisi?me me fait r?ver car, s'il y a un
r?ve que j'aimerais r?aliser d?s que possible c'est d'aller au 7ajj
incha'allah. D3iw m3aya nmchi cette ann?e incha'Allah. o Allah y n3am
3lina jmi3 bel7ajj, goulou amine :-)
Un dernier truc, certains disent, hadak boule7ya rah khwanji. En fait la
barbe que je porte n'est pas conforme au hadith du proph?te "9ossou
chawareb wa 3fou li7a" (diminuer les moustaches et laisser la barbe),
moi je diminue les deux ... Est-ce un enfrein ? l'injonction du proph?te
? non, je ne crois pas. Je crois que dans l'esprit de la religion, le
but c'?tait de se distinguer par rapport aux cultures non musulmanes de
l'?poque (notamment la tradition juive) afin de renforcer l'identit?
musulmane et se frayer une route ind?pendante intellectuellement des
influences jud?o-chr?tiennes ou paennes.
Vous savez tout ou presque.
Tarik
Pilanti de Samir Aboulhouda:
Si Tarik,
Parmi tous les arguments que tu as avance, il n'y a que le premier
qui m'a presque convaincu. Je dis presque car dans l'argument, il y
avait cette opinion ("c'est joli a voir") qui reste une notion tres
subjective:-).
Par contre, je n'arrive pas a voir comment peut-on, et je cite, "se
frayer une route independante intellectullement des influences
jud?o-chr?tiennes ou paennes" avec un signe exterieur? Pour reprendre
une image tres chretienne, je diras que ta citation est une autre
version de "L'habit fait le moine". Ta phrase n'est tres orthodoxe:-)
(oui vous lavez compris je ne porte pas de barbe, ce qui fait mes
references linguistiques sont encore influencees :-)). S'il suffisait
de se laisser pousser la barbe pour qu'intellectuellement une
communaute soit independante des influences diverses et variees,
Gillette n'a plus qu'a fermer boutique :-).
J'ai tendance a croire que l'independance intellectuelle ne peut etre
atteinte que par le savoir. L'ignorance est la maillon faible qu'il
faut par contre totalement raser ;-)
Samir
Coudsizo de Tarik Fdil:
Khay Samir,
- Je n'ai pas dit qu'on peut se frayer un chemin intellectuellement
ind?pendant des autres cultures rien qu'on "cultivant" sa barbe et ses
moustaches d'une certaine mani?re. J'ai dit que l'aspect vestimentaire
et ext?rieur fait partie de la culture mais ce n'est pas toute la
culture, loin de l?. La barbe comme le djellaba font partie de la
culture marocaine.
- Je ne me pr?occupe pas sp?cialement du sort de la firme Gilette, si
elle devait fermer boutique ce n'est pas mon probl?me :-) et je ne vois
pas en quoi cela peut t'affecter ? tu d?tiens des actions Gilette ?
- J'ai l'impression mon cher Samir que tu es hors sujet quand tu parles
du savoir, de l'ignorance et de l'analphab?tisme qu'il faut raser :-)
Moi je parle des cheveux qui poussent dans mon visage. Une amie ? moi
qui me connaissait sans barbe m'a demand? le fin mot de l'histoire, je
lui ai r?pondu avec un peu d'humour et un petit zeste d'histoire du
maroc et d'islam. Le discours sur le savoir et l'analphab?tisme est un
"d?bat" et nous ne sommes pas en train de "d?battre" sur la question de
la "barbe"; c'est ridicule et on a certainement d'autres choses plus
int?ressantes ? d?battre.
Tarik
Darbat Ezawiya de Hassan Elghani:
Salam,
Aaaah la barbe !! Quel sujet passionnant.
Je voudrais bien en avoir une moi aussi, une jolie barbe sur le visage ?a fait classe n?est ce pas ?
Mais mes raisons sont toutes autres que celles de notre ami Tarik. Moi si je veux une barbe c?est pas pour me distinguer par rapport aux autres cultures, ni pour renforcer mon identit? musulmane et encore moins pour causer le d?p?t de bilan de Gillette.
Je veux une barbe (une guadouma pour ?tre plus pr?cis) tout simplement pour ?tre IN, Frix, ? la page avec les tendances de mode. Je veux une gaudouma comme celle de l?acteur John Travolta dans son dernier film, ou encore celle de Robert de Niro , une guadouma classe ? l?italienne. h? h? h? a ta9lid al a3ma! l?parabole ou maydir! la culture hollywoodienne hihihihihih a wedii llah ihdina ou safi.
Donc voila, ?a c??tait le pourquoi, reste maintenant le comment. Car si pour certains il suffit de ne pas se raser pendant quelques jours (ce qui est le cas de notre ami Tarik) pour moi ?a pose un vrai probl?me. Je suis imberbe et tout ce que je r?ussi ? avoir si je ne me rase pas c?est des petites touffes de poils dispers?es sur mes joues et qui poussent dans tous les sens. Ceci m?oblige malheureusement ? les raser bien malgr? moi.
Je voulais donc saisir cette occasion et m?adresser aux lecteurs de Raioo, les lecteurs barbus en particulier, pour m?aider ? trouver une solution ? ce probl?me. Si vous connaissez un truc, une astuce ou une recette de grand m?re pour faire pousser une jolie barbe, envoyez la ? mon ami Adnane qui transmettra.
Je vous en serais tr?s reconnaissant.
Merci.
Hassan
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| 1:12 pm September 22, 2003 |
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Za
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? propos les gars vous ne trouvez pas que la photo de Hassan dois etre dans la rubriques des funny photos ?? pour Hassan : c'est pas que t'es pas beau ou bien quelque chose comme mais juste car la photo moi personellement je la trouve funny :o) PS : biah ! t'es pas aussi Decaprio ni La bete dial la belle et la bete alors t'es bin ou bin :-p |
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| 11:21 pm September 21, 2003 |
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H.K
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 hey salut Hassan;
cette recette est pour toi:
7ouk boufartoutou sur ton vissage!!! Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi
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makhokhi
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 ahiawin wach bito theniwna wella la ?? bssalto wellahila bssalto
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MACLAREN
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iz i lookin for some moroKan Punnani can i find some in ere .... rasta revolution it all started in zion maan iz i had enough of babylon man iz wana go back to jamaica man me still no dread lock but iz planin to grow me natty congo and keep it rasta like de man bob marley :))) damn this site will all be speakin patios ( jamaican accent ) someday if jah bless. Jah Ras Tafari. |
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ummm...I see you ina de yard, wearing boogers(Jamaican Sberdila), eating mango fruit and shaking I'n'I dreads as to chasse the demons. Ya mon, Peace'n'love sounds true...As for Zion...ehum...u mean "Zayan" region ina morocco Iya ? ;) keep hitting the drums, Babylon shall fall...
As it was said, so shall it be! :) Rasta 4 I.
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MACLAREN
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ima step on chichiman de only way 2 win da revolucion iz if we do it rasta Jah Ras Tafari man
Zion .. homeland
One Love One Nation
Peace in da Middle East man
Haile Halle Sellasi
Jah Bless.
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MACLAREN
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hahahah Antr loooooooool yousa keepin tha flow goin iz ere in jamaica aswell broad i need some black to medicate me soul man
i iz i want 2 tell ya 2 send iz regards 2 yous jamaican friend from motherland jamaicaa hehehe
damn heheh i like that comment on a natty dreadlock guy wearin a jellaba hehe yaa and not any jellaba a 3rrobi jelaba 2 keep it ghetto Made In Oujda city ..
hahahah jamaican guy iz de man in de pic yous say hehehe iz i tink dat aswell broad but iz tink he looks more moroccan dan jamaican cuz he no has dreadlocks and looks more 3rrobi :))))
Antr 10/10 hehehe wallah u made me laugh my a... out heheh wtg bro..
Jah Bless.
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Adnane Ben. message
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Morocco was fighting besides France, why the heck didn't we get a VETO :/ LOL And check this NY Times article: Poverty doesn't create terrorism According to the article, and Bush, the potential for suicide bombers is higher in countries where there is Poverty AND Corruption AND repressive regimes. There has to be these 3 ingredients mixed together. But what the 4th ingredient I think he is missing, or trying to mask, is the repressive foreign policy of rich nation regimes that locks third world into a circle of misery (huge foreign debt, export-oriented economies where 3rd world nation gives away its goods begging rich nations for something even small) |
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Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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I get your point... but when it comes to the UN it was created by the winning parties of the war. Germany or Japan are stronger than France or England in terms of economy and edustry.
Yet, none of them got a Veto power...
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Adnane Ben. message
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Antr, Equal can many different things.. do they mean equal politically, economically, socially..etc there's a difference. For example, USA also says all men are equal, BUT, they're not equal politically, because, and correct me if I am wrong, one vote in Massachussetts or California is worth more than one vote in .. say Idaho (electoral vote). This equality terminology is mind-boggling. |
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Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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the UN was created after WW2 to benefit the main fighting parties : England, France, Russia, China and the US. the Irony is that one of the UN declarations, is that ALL men of all nations are equal...Yet only 5 nations have a VETO cards.
in otherwords, 5 nations decide for
149 countries or what ever... So the UN, was a joke from day number one.
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Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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Adnane, What Clinton said is nothing new,
The US could be called the "United Corporations of America".
Wich are in the hands of 4 or 5 percent of the American poeple...
All the rest are disciples, would they be politicians or soldiers, they all follow strict orders. The scary part is that they intent to conquer all what comes their way, and as to silence the protests or "rebels" , new laws will be created to silence the American public first. they have aleady. "Patriot Act".
A long ago,Gorge Orwell predicted a Police state type of world order, were individuals will be monitored, liberties restricted, and the subjects will have to obey strict orders to serve the corporate power, or face the consequnces.
Now, we are withnessing the first stage of that...
As a retaliation, recently the EU signed a bill, where they will start building a defence system independent from NATO, starting from2004. and Russia is included it !! So, it seems that the Caucasians will sart a new war among themselves again...But this time,
the nuclear mashrooms will be seen from Planete Vega. :)
Unless a drastic change will take place.
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Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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McLaren....:)) You must be a Nattydread ina jellaba, who admires Michael Shumacher eh ? ;) one of my Very good friends is from Kingston, Jah-make-ya :).
Him no smoke no spliff nor chalice. the mOn above reminds me of the Reggae legend Jimmy Cliff, who converted to Islam, and called himself "Bacheer". May the Powa' of Nyabingui protect your dreadlocks and keep you cool in deh. :) Respek I-ya ! One Love.
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Adnane Ben. message
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Antr, all the efforts after world wars I and II to build a safer world, with the creation of UN ouzid ouzid, is gone habaan manthouraaa with Bush senior and Bush junior. The American Army has recently restored an unprecedented popularity since the vietnam war. More and more American youth are joining the army, while less and less are caring for politics. Today former prez Clinton gavea speech in JFK Library Boston, urging the youth to get involved in their citizenship values of voting at least. If the new generation does not care much for politics, who's going to influence the government? Clinton told them that the way governments work have changed. NGOs are a big factor in politics. Non-Government Organizations. He said that their vote, surely would have made a difference in the 2000 elections, jokingly moquing Bush, but voting unfortunately is still not enough. They need to seriousely get involved in NGO and do more to challenge political ideologies of administrations if they see necessary. Now that I think of it, I started a while ago, during Gulf War II, about world protests and can they affect US decisions. I feel that they cannot do much unfortunately. After all, what have they done for Gulf War II ? We saw a miriad of protests around the world, US still gave up on UN, and went ahead changing Iraq's regime. Now? the army is the biggest winner. |
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Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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Yesterday, I read about an american converted woman, who refused to take the picture of her uncovered face for her ID card, because she believes that it is "against" Islam...and abviousely she did sue the gov. officials who insisted that she should take off the veil as to have an ID photo, wich of course makes sense... what shocked me more, is the fact that such a silly "even" was among
Yahoo headlines, as if it would be an international event mankind has to think about. Weird news like that should, with "Lezard man" type of stories
in the "Odd" section. That woman whether she knows it or not, she is fueling the media
who is psychologically preparing the American public for the imminent "Iranian Liberation" War, Butsh is loading his guns, and the oil subcontractor companies are taking out their pencils and paper once again.
Same "Oil" game...
Now that the weapons of the mass destructions were not found in Irak,
Iran will face a "Mini skirt" crusade .;) And the a serious section of the Americans will quote muslim men with crazy boys slaming jet planes against buildings, and Muslim women with Ninja dressed females. As it has been demanded by Sharon last year, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Lybia should be attacked as the make the world a "safer" place.
I am just sitting back and watching the show.
Funny how Dubya is predictable these, there is no need to be a Nostradamus...:) PS: One has to watch out from the media, there is an agenda for all of what is going on around the world... |
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Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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Adanne, ---And have you ever been thinking why the jews wear that little black hat ? It might look "cute" on them as you said, but I definitely do not see any beauty in the "Nwader" they grow on both sides of their heads.
That also is meant to differenciate them from the non jews...
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MACLAREN
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hate tha french language :((((((
what is he talkin about anyways ???
for a second there i thaught this site has english topix only ... weird what ya learn in a second....
Jah Bless.
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Adnane Ben. message
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Tarik, dertli darbatt aljazaaee :] I read your message in entirety and I am very touched about several of the points you made. The political reasons lol well those are funny! given that you're relating them to the beard, but hey the other reasons, RESPECT man! |
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Tarik Fdil message
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Le message post? par Adnane est vieux et il est sorti de son contexte. Si on me pose la question aujourd'hui je ne dirai pas la m?me chose. A l'?poque, je voulais blaguer car j'?tais de bonne humeur et le monde ?tait moins mauvais. Aujourd'hui j'ai le coeur fondu, l'?me triste et la raison en d?sarroi. Je ne me reconnais plus dans mon pays,
mes compatriotes me sont presque des ?trangers et
j'essaie de ne pas penser ? ma condition d'homme marocain, arabe et musulman
et de plonger compl?tement dans le travail associatif ou autre dans l'int?r?t de mon pays.
J'essaie de parler peu et de plus travailler.
J'essaie de fuir ... et voil? que Adnane me remet en scelle ... Ach briti fia a sahbi ? Cependant je ne vais pas me d?sister, je vais y aller mais je ne serai pas complaisant et je
n'essaierai pas de faire plaisir ? qui que ce soit j'essaierai d'?tre tout simplement moi m?me.
Vous pouvez aimer cela ou le d?tester c'est votre droit mais c'est mon droit d'?tre diff?rent. J'ai ?num?r? sept raisons pour expliquer pourquoi je porte une barbe et r?pondre ? la question "?tre ou para?tre", malheureusement le texte ?tait long et le programme de raioo.com a refus? de le poster. C'est pourquoi j'ai d?cid? de le mettre en ligne sur ma page perso ? l'adresse http://aboumouad.tripod.com/barbe2.html
bonne lecture Tarik |
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Adnane Ben. message
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Actually, when I say "I think we should", I meant we should reevaluate it and the result will be, whoever wants to have a beard and moustache the way the prophet suggested go ahead, whoever felt like shaving it off go ahead. Those who keep the beard or shave it should not do so because of any religious or idelogical reasons. Samir accepted only one reason from all those that Tarik provided, and it is the reason of style. It makes common sense nowadays, because you see nor Majouss, Jews or Bouddhas all over the place, neither Muslims all over the place. So why the need to differentiate oneself? a question that hasn't been answered yet in this discussion, believe - I probably missed it, correct me please.
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Adnane Ben. message
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Nego, ok, but my other question is, and forgive me if I come across as someone who's asking these questions that could offend some of you, does Prophet observation about Li7ya (beard) and moustache handling APPLIES today? I believe it does not. It was strictly for that time. Shouldn't his observation be reevaluated in light of current state of style and looks ? I believe we should. |
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Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
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Yes Adnane the Prophet(PBUH) said on a hadith (khalifou almuchrikine, wafourrou alli7a a9oussou chawarib) why because some majouss used to rase or shorten their beard, and they were known like that, who ever sees them he`ll know that they are majouss, or muchrikin, so to be different from them the Proiphet(PBUH) told the sa7abah to shorten(and not rase) thei Mustach, and to let grow the beard.... bennisba l hassan yla bghiti tkebber le7ya, kimma gallek why@, 7oukk jna7 dial fer6a6ou wmatkhamemch... he he he he, zouina hadi |
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SANFOR_7
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NO BEAUTY NO COMING EARLY
KHAIB OSSLA3 OZIYADA 3LA HADA KAIMOSS FI FANIDA..
TKHAYAL HADA IKHROJ LIK FI CHI DALMA O IGOUL LIK ANTA MARTI ....................................
3OKKKKK 3OKKKKKKKK A 3IBAD ALAH AL 3AZWA BGHA IDIR WLIDAT M3AYA FI DALMA.
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Adnane Ben. message
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Regarding what Tarik said, why would Prophet Mohammed (salla llaho 3alayhi wassallam) encourage Muslims to differentiate themselves from others IN LOOKS? I don't get it.. I really don't! For me I don't care if a Muslim looks like a Jew, you know, wearing a tiny hat, or wearing all black, or having long hair by the ears. I actually honestly find the little hat pretty cool, never wore it but it looks awesome on them!! |
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Why?@#!
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Hillou :) ... Hey Hassan ... I have a tip for ya ... to grow a nice beard ... the old moroccan man moulla baraka said that all you have to do is to rub a butterflys' wings on the part of your body where you want the hair to grow (7 days 1 hour before going to bed) and you'll be amazed with the results ... and trust me it works ... I've tried it on my chest ... caus' I have always wanted to have a sdere mzegheb :) ... dire niya ... thella :)
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MACLAREN
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heheheh HASSAN ELGHANI looks funnier than tha pic above hehehehe ...Jah Bless..
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