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SCI.TECH
Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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55
comments.
Cloning Humans
12:00:00 AM Monday Dec 30, 2002



You've probably heard of the first baby that was cloned in Florida, USA! The research organization behind this is called CLONAID and they belong to a cult who believes humans were created through cloning by extraterrestrials (aliens). If you want to read more here are some links, and we hope you can come back and participate in a discussion about this news.

CLONAID?
(BBC) Cloning Humans: Can It Really Be Done?
The Ethics of Cloning of Humans from Somatic Cells
Scientist who cloned sheep: Cloning humans would be "inhuman"

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.



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12:10 pm    September 17, 2007
rashid
55
its best
·

11:03 pm    May 23, 2003
MACLAREN
54
Mmmmm cloning humans what if they start cloning dead ppl ... like bob marley or 2pac and biggie... sure ppl would love it but ... what if hitler or some other vicious leaders who only gave misery to this world were to be cloned ...
cloning is another black spot in the destruction of mankind.
·

5:23 am    May 12, 2003
emir**holland
53
hi i am emir from holland

do you want see a maroc community

check this out

http://groups.msn.com/marocco

you can also look at www.groupmarocco.tk

greetings from emir

·

11:26 am    March 19, 2003
DJ max
52
this is one sign day of resuraction yame 3eyama they show no fear to allah said it coming and he will never back down this shiiit crazy now people can create other people by coloning that god job u could feel it coming soon madness all over the world and he is gonna take action enough it enough this shittt make me sick of this life sinfulllllllllllllll
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8:45 pm    February 24, 2003
YACINE
51
there were lots of prons of cons and questions asked on wether cloning humans could ever be done, well, it sure can, but it is an interference with the powers of god, the only one in position to give and take life, whereas, a person in a need of a heart transplant cannot afford to wait until such person dies so that he could get his/her heart, in this case, i would opt for an organ cloning which has been performed on lab rats, we have seen human ears growing on the back of a rat, but to what extend is this going to go on ?
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4:54 pm    January 11, 2003
moulat lhrira
50
asalam,
whatever i am gonna write has nothing to do with the subject yet jsut to suggest an idea to lmodir of raioo...i was thinking if you can have some other activities herein raioo jsut to know each other and exchange all ideas...after all it is just an idea and wanted to share it....feel free to comment!!!
May Allah bless you all
Moulat Lhrira "original"
·

10:12 am    January 7, 2003
Clone
49
Hi,
cloning humans is because mankind( unbelievers) can't accept the fact that they will die one day.
First the people wanted to do anything to preserve mankind and now they want to preserve individuals, what an illusion!!!
·

9:04 am    January 7, 2003
___lmoudir___
48
Hello all, thanks for your thoughtfull participation in this topic. Will put a new topic as soon as we can. Thanks!
·

2:28 pm    January 6, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
47
a little humor ma fiha bass..:)
Check out these cloned babies: http://www.vickysjokes.com/funny/reall.asp
while you're there, check out the rest of the funny pictures and jokes.
enjoy

PS: Thank you H_K^RaBaT^:

Peace N Love

·

2:08 pm    January 6, 2003
H_K^RaBaT^
46
Arabi^7ta^Tmout : i think this is the greatest idea beenproposed for a while. here are my answers :

1- probably No. but hopefully for muslims Yes.
2- Yes.
3- No.
4- lahou a3lam. even in the case of islam.

i'd like to suggest another subject:
do you think there is any legitimacy in the american act if a war is to be in the few comming months in Irack? what will become of arabs if the united states persists on attacking Irack?

·

10:16 am    January 6, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
45
I realize posts on this subject have ended a while back, but this could be of importance to people in the Boston area. The Islamic Society of Boston is having an immigration clinic in the Cambridge location (204 Prospect Street near Central Square) this Wednesday Jan 8 after Ishaa prayer at 7:30pm. There will be a pannel of lawyers who will discuss change in INS regulaitons and could review individual cases. Check the website at www.isboston.org
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8:19 am    January 6, 2003
moulay
44
salut tout le monde.merci pour ce site sympa et constructif,continuez comme ca. ahmed
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6:58 am    January 6, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
43
I first want to acknowledge everyone?s well-thought arguments in this forum. Your arguments are very unique, precis, and interesting.
Now that I have that out of my chest, I think that we all argue a common point, which is cloning is a good thing only and only if it helps humanity entirely. Otherwise, cloning is immoral and obscene.
Well, to avoid entering into a boring argument-generating loop, which aim to satisfy the same equation that everyone seems to agree on, I suggest wrapping this social discussion with a quick yes-no question then introducing a new and interesting subject.
The following is a set of questions, which, I hope, may conciliate everyone?s curiosity:
1. Can we achieve cloning organs without resorting to human cloning? (Yes/No)
2. If the answer to the question above is NO, would organ cloning be worth it? (Yes/No)
3. If you, immediate family, or a friend were a ?handicap?, would you support cloning then? (Yes/No)
4. In this case, would religion object to a science that might save millions of people from agony? (Yes/No)

Peace N Love

·

6:20 am    January 6, 2003
nour
42
pour ce qui est du verset encore:
je n'oserai jamais interpr?ter quoi que ce soit du coran tout ce que j'ai dis pr?c?dament est tir? du taffsir de al kortoubi.
·

6:16 am    January 6, 2003
nour
41
bonjour ? tous:

pour ce qui est du verset coranique:
on peut le lire des deux mani?res soit "birraf3" soit "binnasb".
dans le premier cas :?a voudrait dire que dieu:
???????? ?????????? ?????????????? ????? ??????? ????????? ??????????? ???? ????????? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ???????

et EXCUSEZ moi si j'ai utilis? le mot redouter , mais je n'avais nullement l'intention de laisser entendre que dieu a "peur" des savants .

et je pense que ?a va dans le sens de ce que j'avais ?cris.

et dans le deuxi?me cas c'est ce que t'avais expliqu? a ssi lmoudir.

sinon en ce qui concerne le m?pris Mr H K^RaBaT^:c'est que tu as laiss? entendre que tu ne crois pas trop aux histoires de clonnage, j'en d?duis que tu estimes qu'ils en sont pas capables d'apr?s tes dires toujours.pour moi cel? est du m?pris .
et pour conclure je ne te visais pas sp?cialement en disant cel? mais en parlant de notre (ma) communaut? en g?n?ral qui reste les bras crois?s et qui sousestime les autres.
et je m'excuse si avec quoi que ce soit comme argument j'ai pu bless? l'un d'entre vous.

veuillez accepter mes sinc?res excuses.

·

2:24 am    January 6, 2003
Mounir
40
Salamou alikoum ,bonne ann?e et bonne sante bref , vous savez le mec (RAEL) c un grand escrit ,il raconte n iimporte koi , DAYER FIHHA RASSOUL;c et? un chanteur et un journaliste pas plus et maintenant il invente des histoires et surtout ce truc de clonage , vraiment [ ?LAMaTTE ASS??]!!
·

12:45 am    January 6, 2003
ViTo
39
la principale raison qui a pouss? les scientifiques ? pratiquer le clonage; c est que dans ces pays civilis?s les hommes ont perdu le gout et la puissance sexuelle; the most natural zqy to make babies:)
·

12:28 pm    January 5, 2003
H_K^RaBaT^
38
tout d'abord je salue l'intervention perspicace d'Imoudir. je te remercie pour cette precision capital.
ma chere compatriote Nour il est grave que de donner des interpretations fastidieuses au coran. je me preserve de te donner des lecons de moral vu que moi meme n'est plus connaisseur sur dine. mais ceci-dit un fait jaiit a savoir notre ignorance de l'essentielle et notre abstinence a s'occuper de ce qui nous n'interesse pas en premier lieu. du moins a mon humble avis.
entre autre je ne penses pas avoir ecris un recis anti quiconque pour en deduire le mepris des autres. j'espere qu'apres une deuxieme lecture tu t'en rende compte et je te pris d'accepter mes salutations.

je reponds a ma deuxieme compatriote Zineb que je salue a son tour. je respecte la difference et je n'es fais que cultive l'esprit de liberte de parole en donnant mon avis sur le sujet. parcontre tu dis vouloir comprendre le phenomene. il n'y a pas de mal a ca, encore mieux on elargis tous notre culture general. cependant la physique nucleaire est la depuis cinq decennies et meme qu'il y a des briants marocains et arabes
qui y ont consacrer toute une vie pour decrocher un doctorat (la mission de l'onu en irak actuellement en compte deux si je ne me trompe pas). mais je me dis a quoi bon???????? 5 decennies apres et ce n'est tjrs pas un enjeux pour notre patrie, alors si je reagis en tenant compte de l'aspect patico-pratique veuillez m'excuser.

une derniere precision, je tiens a dire que cette reponse est faite sur un temps pacifiste faute de quoi d'autres croirant qu'ils s'agit d'une replique offensive et votre reponse est la bienvenue, je la lirais avec interet. finalement ce que je dis n'engage que moi et sur ce salamou alikoum

·

11:30 am    January 5, 2003
___lmoudir___
37
nour, une petite remarque sur le verset du Coran que t'as cite: {innama yakhcha allaho min ?badihi aloulamae}.

La correction je pense est dans le troisieme mot: {innama yakhcha ALLAHA min ?badihi aloulamae}.

et cela ne veut pas dire que Dieu redoute les scientifiques, mais que en generale les scientifiques ont plus de chance d'admirer les creations de Dieu puisque qu'ils comprennent mieux la nature biologique des creations, ou bien la nature des plantes, de la geologie.. etc

·

5:28 am    January 5, 2003
nour
36
c'est cel? notre probl?me: manque de communications qui engendre pas mal d'incompr?hensions,et notre m?pris pour les autres, il est sans doute que le clonage existe et cel? depuis le coup r?ussi de la ch?vre 'dolli'(?a fait environ 7 ans), alors il faut se dire que les exp?riences sur l'homme ont commenc? depuis ce temps l?, surtout; comme l'a dit Zineb; les scientifiques ne rendent publiques leurs r?sultats de recherches qu'apr?s un long terme,alors nous avons pas tort d'en parler d?s maintenant et de nous sensibiliser nous m?mes,au lieu d'?tre surpris, demain, et de ne savoir quelle position prendre.
une derni?re chose: il vaudrait mieux pour nous de ne pas sousestimer les scientifiques et leurs recherches, comme le dit "allah": {innama yakhcha allaho min ?badihi aloulamae}.

alors si DIEU redoute ce qu'ils peuvent faire , que ferions nous ?

·

4:06 am    January 5, 2003
zineb
35
Salam to all, H_K^RaBat^: permes-nous de discuter des sujets qui nous interessent stp! Que nous le d?sirions ou pas, la science ?volue, le clonage et d'autres technologies existent, dis-toi bien que ceci n'est que le d?but vu qu'en g?n?ral les scientifiques ne rendent public leur d?couverte qu'apr?s 2 ans.(fais le calcul si l'enfant nait en ce moment quand ont-il commenc? le clonage humain?) Le fait d'en discuter ici, bien que cela semble te d?ranger, nous aide nous ? mieux comprendre un nouveau ph?nom?ne. Nous n'avons rien ? gagner ni ? perdre de ce cot? l? sinon un ?change d'id?es.Meme si ce cas-?i n'est que publicit? pour cette secte de d?biles, prochainement le clonage humain sera r?alit?, sois en sur. La technique de l'autruche n'a jamais trop bien marcher pour les humains:) Celle du clonage encore moins bref .. vive la discussion et surtout merci ? ceux qui nous en donnent la possiblit? sur ce site. Salam.
·

1:43 am    January 5, 2003
Sven
34
Why are they backing up on validating their claims?
Why aren't they allowing to test the DNA from the baby and the mom?
As far as there is no proof yet, I would say they are goofy people with no lives who play God.
·

12:28 am    January 5, 2003
H_K^RaBat^
33
bonjour tous le monde, une petite mise a jour s'impose :
1- un probleme recurent que j'ai pu constater: tous le monde croit qu'il s'agit de se substituer au createur. faux, les cellules preleve sur la copie originale, si vous me permettez l'expression, sont l'oeuvre de dieux seul quand il a par son seul souffle donnez vie a du tourab rappelons-le. alors laissez-les consacrer tous le temps, tous les millions et tous les efforts qu'ils voudrant, je crois que la substitution n'est guere possible et il n'ya pas l'ombre d'un doute dans l'esprit de chaque musulman.

2- un bebe clone a ete pretendument ne. y-a-t'il a jour une personne qui en a la certitude?
aucune. personnellement un mec qui me dit etre enleve par des extras-terrestres n'a aucune credibilite a mon egard et franchement alimenter cette superstition ne fais que son jeux. attendons qu'on est verifier ses dires et puis discutons des vrais tenants et aboutissants.

3- pour ce qui est des tenants et aboutissant je m'obstine a vous dire que ce n'est les pours et les contres qui sont l'enjeux. l'enjeux est tout autre : y'a-t-il un besoin auquel le clonnage est une necessite ou un incontournable? ou bien cederons-nous a une campagne de marketing obsolete qui reussies a travers nos disccussions acharnees et alimente la couverture mediatique. franchement du jour au lendemain il n'y a que ce cretin a la tele et il faut croire meme sur RAIOO. alors je vous demande d'economiser vos energies pour d'autres themes plus interessants.

sur ce je vous laisse et espere de ma cote d'ecoute sera plus large cette fois-ci :))). wa salamou alaikoum

·

7:09 am    January 4, 2003
nour
32
pour ce qui est de l'ins?mination de "mariam" par "gibra?l", tu peux aller sur ce lien et ?couter la le?on concernant ce fait:
(http://www.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=lessons&lesson_id=16413&scholar_id=250&scholar_name=????%20????&scholar_directory=hsaeed&series_id=691)
? la minute 30, si t'as pas le temps de tout ?couter.
sinon dans les sourats: "al anbiae"(: al aya 90) wa "attahrim"(:al aya 11).

d'apr?s l'explication des "ayats" que je viens d'en donner les r?f?rences, "rouho al koudos" c'est sayidouna gibra?l 3alayhi assalam, qui s'?tait pr?sent? sous l'image d'un bel homme, devant"mariyam" 3alayha assalam et qui lui a souffl? dans sa poche(une ouverture dans ses habits), et le souffle s'est gliss? dans son ut?rus , et c'est de cette mani?re qu'elle a ?t? ins?min?e.

voil? j'esp?re que j'ai r?pondu ? ta question.

·

7:23 pm    January 3, 2003
gamecock
31
I just beleive that they will never do it, just let them try..
·

12:37 pm    January 3, 2003
zineb
30
Adnane c'est juste ma fa?on de voir les choses avec tout le respect pour tes opinions et celles d'Amine:) Nous parlons religion car justement les critiques du clonage viennent d'un point de vue moral et ?thique bas? sur nos valeurs en tant que Muslumans et
?tres humains. Il ne faut pas tout m?langer, J?sus est un tout autre sujet.Techniquement l'enfant clon? ne peut etre ni le fils ni la fille, un enfant ne peut etre engendrer que par un couple male/femelle. Le Clon? est copi? ? base de la cellulle du pere ou de la mere mais il peut ?tre aussi un autre ovule qui est implant? dans l'ut?rus de la m?re porteuse! Avec toutes les cons?quences que ca implique.
·

12:13 pm    January 3, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
29
Zineb and nour, I think you got me and Amine wrong, don't you think? ni moi ni Amine ont dit que Jesus etait clone ;) on a dit, et lisez s'il vus plait encore une fois, que l'histoire de la creation de Jesus et le concept du clonage ont une chose commune --> pas de sperm ? mais nour nous dit que Marie a ete insemine pas gabriel, une chose que je n'ai jamais entendu avant. nous tu peut stp nous citer la reference dans le Coran ? merci.

Aussi, nour a demande une question a qui elle a repondu dans son dernier message: les clone, qui seront leur parents ? dans son dernier message elel repond que parceque le clone se develope au fond de la mere, voila! il a une mere deja. le pere.. ou bien une deuxieme mere ? l'autre peut etre n'importe qui, oui? ca peut etre une cellule qu'on a pri d'une personne non-adulte meme..

·

12:04 pm    January 3, 2003
zineb
28
Salam alaikoum all.
As far as I know Islam does not make us ?plants? We have been given brains to think about every single thing we do in our lives. To be a Muslim is to be a responsible human being, responsible for all our actions, if it were not the case we wouldn?t have to answer to Allah.. I don?t believe that we are just powerless creatures who are following some kind of predertimend path as you said Amine. We shouldn?t even try to compare Allah?s creation of Aissa to cloning because there is a major difference between the two things. One: Creating is not Cloning as this means to copy or to duplicate. I don?t think Aissa was copied! If it had been the case he would have been a twin not a son.Furthermore: Islam does not allow the introduction of third parties into a marriage, whether it?s a woman, a man, a womb, an egg or a cloning cell? Islam clearly states that reproduction can only take place within marriage between a man and a woman. Salam and peace to all
·

11:51 am    January 3, 2003
nour
27
et en ce qui concerne "j?sus",je pense pas que c'est du clonage, puisque "marie" a ?t? ins?min?e , ce qui veut dire qu'il y a eu une gam?te m?le qui a provoqu? cette ins?mination, et le coran nous explique bien que c'est gabriel (saidouna gibra?l) qui a caus? cette ins?mination par ordre de dieu, alors je pense que j?sus n'est pas un clone mais plut?t le fils de marie puisqu'il s'est d?velopp? normalemenr dans le ventre de sa m?re pendant neuf mois.

mais sinon je ne sais pas si on peut faire du clonage avec le sexe oppos?:
exp: un homme qui se fait clon? en femme?
merci d'essayer de me r?pondre

·

11:37 am    January 3, 2003
nour
26
bonjour ? tous!

ce que je voudrais savoir c'est quel ?quilibre social aura cet individu clon??
sera-t-il le fr?re jumeau ou le fils de celui qui a subi le clonage? qui devra -t-il appeler papa et maman ? ou devra -t-il vivre comme un orphelin?quel nom de famille aura-t-il?
ou peut ?tre le plus important c'est de produire des copies sans prendre en compte les personnes qu'elles deviendront au futur?ces personnes qui voudront connaitre leur identit??

pour ma part je pense que le clonage est une grande d?couverte mais qui doit ?tre utilis? pour aider l'humanit? et non pas pour la d?truire, nos soci?t?s subissent d?j? des crises d'individualisme alors vous imaginez comment sera ce monde avec une majorit? de clones?j'oserai m?me pas m'imaginer vivant dans un monde pareil, je surviverai pas.

par ailleurs je suis tout ? fait d'accord avec le clonage des animeaux,pour ceux qui sont en voie de disparition notamment!

·

9:24 am    January 3, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
25
Very good questions Amine. I actualy completely forgot to correlate the birth of Eissa (Jesus) to the concept of cloning, both share at least one thing: there was no man involved.

I probably should find all verses in the Quran that describe the birth of humans, including Jesus, and animals, and see what my modest mind can see through them. The vocabulary that the Quran uses is very descriptive with microscopic granularity, so it will be interesting to have this cognitive excercise.

·

8:04 am    January 3, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
24
Oh I forgot. Let me add another level of complexity to the moral issue some people might face. I was listening to a debate on Wednesday with the President's counsil on medical ethics, and someone asked the question of whether these clones wuold have any rights when they grow up; meaning will they be considered just sources of human organs or depositories of memories and experiences or will they have their lives and will they make their own choices etc.
I was shocked at the question, because it highlighted either one of two things: either people are completely ignorant of cloning and think that it will produces drones; or that I am completely ignorant of cloning and that it does in fact create brainless drones (I highly doubt it but I am no authority there.)
Any input?

Also, has anyone taken a crack at how it might be in synch or conflict with what is described in the Quran. The Quran explicitely describes with great clarity the reproductive process that takes place inside the womb, and as far as I know, cloning uses the same process. The Quran also makes refrences the birth if Eissa allayhi ssalam which we all know was miraculous because there was no man involved. Anybody looked into any of this?

·

7:55 am    January 3, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
23
I am not a religious scholar, but I will make a proposition and please let me know if it makes sense.
We are told that everything has been predetermined from the start, that we are running a predetermined course. Somewhere within that scheme, cloning was predetermined, the same as it was decided that someone would find the earth to be round, and that someone would find ways to create rainy weather, and that someone would go to the moon, etc. Perhaps God established milestones for us to reach, and we maybe playing along just fine.
This is just a weak theory for now and I can't back it up, but I am curious what you guys think.
·

4:35 pm    January 2, 2003
zineb
22
Adnane I hope you don?t mind:)
PROs:
* can clone any celebrity or famous person... and maybe add your own touch to it ;)
CONs ... (can't think of anything else) I can take Bush , Sharon or those actors from Friends?hehehe
PROs
* this will make men obsolete? since the baby can be created without semen, and can develop inside a woman's womb. (who needs them after all?) hehehe you just prooved my point.
* Marriage may not have the same significance anymore.( Since when did it have one?)
*CONs this will open door for playing with genes, trying different combinations --> turn humans into laboratory objects of study.( why not after all everything has a good purpose?we?ll give humans the same treatment they give animals in laboratories nice comfortable cages )
* there could be underground scientists working for the dark side.( so what? Should we be scared? After all it?s for the evolution of man kind)
* will make crimes hard to investigate, since biological identity will be easy to mock around with.( Why worry when you have nothing to fear? The law'll keep you safe )
Adnane I get your point, I think there are some PROs like the men thing for example think of a world where men are no longer needed, where a woman can choose the colour, the gender and the way her child will look like.It sounds scary to me too; all those crasy women out there making copies of Tom Cruise?? Please spare us. May God have mercy on us. I still can?t see anything positive about cloning humans. Before I get any reaction to this it was meant as a joke:) Salam Alaikoum to all.


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3:06 pm    January 2, 2003
arabi
21
i think that the only kind of cloning that should be allowed is the medical cloning or if you want clonning human organs for those who needs them that's the only way that clonning can help hummanity otherwise it adds additional problems. and we are far very far from cloning specific parts of a human body.
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2:33 pm    January 2, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
20
Zineb, unfortunately you have interpreted my words differently. The reason I say I feel the same way about cloning (kind of creepy) is only because of my human Nature that society succeeded to domesticate.
The millions of people I am talking about are everywhere in the world. Many of them dye or join the disability world because of an organ failure. Those people and only those people can talk about immoral and not immoral. Furthermore, You never explained why cloning is dangerous and immoral. As far as starvation, no one is taking away from helping with that issue, in fact there are even more issues that need to be treated. As of being divine, you got my point totally wrong. In general, with knowledge, awareness, science, and research we grow into a better self, which will eventually get to the level that we all dream about yet no longer believe in.
·

2:31 pm    January 2, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
19
I know many of you are speaking truely with your religious values - some of these values can be argued amongst people from the same religion even. But anyways, many people on earth don't necessarily share one religion or a set of values. I don't see anybody stopping this kind of science from advancing. I actually think it will become a field in modern medicine to be analyzed, taught and advanced in schools. I think it will be monitored by laws but left free to exploration.

So how about if people here think of PROs and CONs of this human cloning, that will be interesting to read. Here is what I think:

PROs:
* can clone any celebrity or famous person... and maybe add your own touch to it ;)

* ... can't think of anything else

CONs:
* this will make men obsolete? since the baby can be created without semen, and can develop inside a woman's womb.

* Marriage may not have the same significance anymore.

* this will open door for playing with genes, trying different combinations --> turn humans into laboratory objects of study.

* there could be underground scientists working for the dark side.

* will make crimes hard to investigate, since biological identity will be easy to mock around with.

·

2:19 pm    January 2, 2003
H_K-RaBat
18
hi to you all, this will be my first intervention in this forum and i'm glad to notice that the topic is a recent controversary on wich the exchange of point of views will be some what interesting. as to cloning some of us will qualify it as a break through discovery that will benefit to mankind, others will simply say its immoral and will serve to other means (youssef gave some interesting examples and the fear of what might happen is justified). the pros and cons aren't subject to matter. ask yourself a simple question: is clonning a necessety to me (does it ansewrs to a certain need i have )? if so how will it affect my life?

personnaly knowing that life continues after death in the most stunning place that neither of us can imagine, where we will see god (subhanaho wa ta3ala), where good and goods are everywhere where i can meet my paternity since mohammad, adam...etc ( this just to give you a slim and really modest idea of al jana), if i have a son i will so accept his death than bringing him back, actually a replica but not my son , to live in this cruel world.

this is my humble point of view and may god bless all of you.

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1:52 pm    January 2, 2003
zineb
17
Arabi, I am trying to understand as a human you feel the same way but you think it should be permitted anyway? It would help millions? Who and where are those poeple? Think about the long term effects on the entire human race. Would it really help the millions who are dying from diseases we already have a cure for I didn't mention starvation either. If our purpose is to better lives it seems to me we should start there and we could clone organs if needed but humans?I don't reject it because it's new but because it's immoral unethical and most of all dangerous. As for reaching a divine self, humans are just weak and ignorant creatures compared to our Creator. We should be trying to be humans in the true sense of the word(respect,love,tolerance,peace) and not be divine for we were never meant to be perfect. It's the difference in each one of us that makes us unique.To try and duplicate what we didn't make in the first place would just be suicide for we don't know what we'll be able to create. Salam.
·

12:23 pm    January 2, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
16
Zineb, I appreciate your strong and powerful argument about cloning humans.
As a human being I feel the same way, that is, cloning is immoral and shouldn?t be adopted. Clearly, in our nature as humans we tend to reject anything NEW especially if it contradicts our believes or logic.
Let us now establish facts:
Did Allah (Sub7anahou wa Ta3ala) prevent us from creating? No.
Is a human clone entirely a creation of humans? No, only partial.
What is the real danger behind cloning? I can not put a finger on it.
There has always been good and evil. People have always been judgmental about races. Our society, human that is, has always put standards for beauty, ugliness, intelligence well for a perfect human. So far all these things I just mentioned didn?t prevent us from advancing and reaching a higher and divine self. Again, if this science is meant for saving and bettering the lives of millions, I have no right to oppose to it. If this same science is meant for destroying mankind in any aspect, I too hinder to it.
Allah I 3awena fhad DOUNIA as we do our best.

Peace N Love

·

11:18 am    January 2, 2003
zineb
15
Salam to all.As a Muslim I must say I am against it because first because I have far greater faith in Allah then I have in these insane people. Allah alone is the Creator and all creation should only take place through His Will.
I think that Cloning is the beginning of the end for humanity. Cloning human beings will only bring us more moral and social problems :think about how the world would treat such cloned humans? Would they be accepted as ?real? human beings when people can?t even accept each other because of race, colour, religion and other differences? It?s not only immoral but it?s also unethical for humans to try and interfere with God,nature whatever you may believe is at the source of our creation. I believe that cloning humans is a greater danger then we think because we?d be giving other people the power to decide what a ?perfect? human should be and who has the right to live! Who can guarantee us that cloning would only be used by the ?good ?ones? They always use the same argument : it will be used for good purposes only, helping cure people but in fact we all know it can and it will be used by the wrong people too. There is a difference between cloning a kidney to cure someone and cloning a ?perfect human?. Where do we draw the line??
Why don?t those so called scientists try to figure out a way to help end starvation in the third world by using cloning for other purposes? We as humans and as Muslims should indeed try to gain knowledge and encourage science but we also have a moral duty to protect our race from these insane people who try to play God! Salam and peace to all .
·

9:16 pm    January 1, 2003
Lhyia
14
Hello Guys!
If there is really this new creature!! Yes, i dont believe on having this medical experience, sure they tried and they r trying to challenge themselves, challenging is not forbidden at all in Islam: in one verse, ALAH SAYS and challenges the human to exit from the Earth and the Skies using the Science!
But, there is no way to compete in this field! Only ALAH can create Human in its figure!!
Analogically to the cheeps, the cloning wont be absolute and same copy! and by the end they will give up, its very expensive and for what reason!!!!
Looking to hear from you
Happy new year!!! even it s not our culture!!
·

5:56 pm    January 1, 2003
Maskhout Al Walidine
13

Peace Aalikoum ...

Cloning Immoral ? Cloning Hram ???

Just take a little look at our historical background: it's only since 1830 when we modest humans realized that the earth is round (http://www.id.ucsb.edu/fscf/library/RUSSELL/FlatEarth.html) ... less than 200 years ... "even though ptoleme, galileo & copernicus were given a hard time by the christians when they started arguing the issue earlier ....

My point is that everytime something new appears, people are afraid of change, and start using religion and other dogmas to fight the unknown ... the human race have advanced in quantum leaps and is reaching to horizons our imagination cannot even start to conceive ....

it's up to you ... you have less than 100 years in your life to either try to investigate and look for the unknown, enjoy living and beleive in intrinsic attraction to improved standards of living ... or ... be like a little maaza in the troupeau, and say baaaad everytime a illuminated mind comes out with something new ...

Nontheless, there are plenty of people around this planete I wouldn't want to see cloned !!!

Peace

·

3:51 pm    January 1, 2003
Youssef
12
I would agree with my friend from Phoenix that if cloning would help save lifes we should support it, but from past exprience we know that having a positive as pect doesn't mean that it won't be used for other means. When dynamite was created, it's creator but no means thought it will beused to destroy, when atomic science was started no one expected an atomic bomb...
How would we feel when this new science is created to breathe a new generations of armies, or when we breathe humans to sell body parts, and if we think that it won't happen, think again, because in our cqapitalist world, ethics are the last thing most profit seeking corporations think of...
I truly believe that cloning should be abolished and avoided, because it will lead to ends that humanity is not and will not be ready to face.
Happy new year everyone, and may GOD make it this year a year of peace and happiness to the World. Oua salam ou alikoum.
·

2:05 pm    January 1, 2003
Why s Clone?!@#$%
11
Hillou :) ... In my modest opinion ... cloning humans to be an exact genetic copy is not the biggest issue ... genetic engineering is ... geneticaly engineering humans ... creating designer babies and choice features ... skin color ... eyes ... hair ... height body weight .... those are the more ethical concerns we should be concerned and worried about ...
·

4:46 pm    December 31, 2002
7areg
10
hello Gentlmen
that whole cloning thing is not simply "immoral" it is simply " 7aram "
there is a fatwa from the Azhar that's states : " cloning is 7aram " because we r intervening in Allah's sounnah of life . so what r y'all saying let's clone all the good people and let the bad ones w/o cloning ??? is that y'alls view of the future of humanity . come on wake up guys !!! what r we gonna do with cloning people ??? it's the ( rou7 ) that counts and w/o it we're all just clay helpless bodies. anyways ... this whole cloning process will end in a catastrophy
May Allah have mercy on us

" rabbi ighfire lana , wala tou'akhidouna bima fa3alahou assoufaha'ou minna ya rabba al 3alamine , wa la tou3adibna bi dounoubi ghayrina ya ar7ama arra7imine "

·

3:47 pm    December 31, 2002

Adnane Ben. message
9
aleddine and why is "simply" immoral ? :)
·

3:33 pm    December 31, 2002

alaeddine message
8
ach hadchi, cloning is simply immoral a ssi arabi^7ta^nmout
·

1:52 pm    December 31, 2002
Arabi^7ta^nmout
7
Ahhhh?Cloning!! There is a word that is typically Moroccan. We started cloning for quite some time now, we clone so well that others (nonmoroccans) find it too difficult to separate the real from the cloned item. Of course, we don?t genetically clone humans yet, and who knows ;), but we sure can clone ?Lacoste?, ?Levi?s?, ?Play-Station? games, etc.
Approaching the matter more seriously and honestly, I think that if cloning saves or betters lives of mankind more than affecting it negatively, then why should we oppose to it or ban it? There are so many concerned people, who constantly watch for any scientific burst to give them hope for a new ?normal? life. For the sake of those people, we should let the research complete, of course, in a moral and humane fashion.
Lastly, using cloning in a purpose other than serving the prosperity of humans is not acceptable. I can?t think of any religion that would hinder to saving millions of human lives.

Peace N Love

·

11:00 am    December 31, 2002
ECS
6
I agree with Adnane, and I also think that there have been so many scientific advancements that were thought to be absolutely safe and foolproof that later were proved to be very dangerous in some way. Things like DDT were sprayed all over the place, only to later discover the disasterous repercussions later when the damage was already done.
In this case we don't even know whether they were successful or not with the cloning of the human, but if normal reproduction is ever completely eliminated, we will be preventing any sort of evolution of humans (I know that this is another debatable topic on these forums) I doubt that there is currently an absolutely perfect human that is totally free from any genetic diseases or defects, so cloning is only going to perpetuate things that have more of a chance of being bred out of families through the typical reproductive method which takes advantage of genetic diversity.
·

10:29 am    December 31, 2002
___lmoudir___
5
I agree with Amine about organ cloning, but it seems cloning success has gone beyond organs apparently. I think it will be an interesting breakthrough to know science is able for sure to clone humans (read Brave New World, the novel) but I think it will be the scariest episode on earth after nuclear weapons breakthrough. American government opposed nuclear research in the beginning, but eventually it used it for its interests. I think the same thing could happen for human cloning, or cloning of creatures that do some needed task (computers are already a live example). Imagine an army like Orcs or Urghai from lord of the rings, imagine cloned normal people who later develop into serial killers, or weird creatures.. it is going to be crazy and politics will not really stop these underground scientists from advancing.
·

8:54 am    December 31, 2002
Why?!@#$!
4
Hillou :) ... Great analysis :) ...
·

8:46 am    December 31, 2002

Rasta Gnawi message
3
I don't see the moral problem with cloning. We were created and we were told to discover as much as possible. History shows that the record of tying up the hands of science is very poor. The only people that make a fuss about it are the ones who have something to lose as a result of it. Better clone kidneys than steal them from half-dead people in the hospitals of third world countries.
My two cents, or maybe less.
·

8:15 am    December 31, 2002
Why?!@#$!
2
Hillou :) ... maybe we'll have the chance to see dinosaurs :) ... that will be Cooool :) ... a real jurassik park ... I think it's possible ...
·

8:05 am    December 31, 2002
Why?@#$!
1
Hillou :) ... a lot of good things cloning can be used for ... as well as the problems with cloning could be found here >><< http://gslc.genetics.utah.edu/units/cloning/whyclone/ >><< ... maybe making our posts a little more interesting ... read and lets spice up our discussion ... :) ... By the way ... I'm pro clonning :) ... tahallaw :) ...
·

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
 
2012
Fri 4/27 6-9 pm: Amazigh Spring Concert in NYC..
 
2011
Algeria and Tunisia Are Trying To Breathe..
 
2010
Another Wonderful Film from Algeria: Mascarades!..
Talk Back to Your Energy Core..
What a complicated war! what a warm music!..
Can Anthropologists and Social Scientists Help Prevent or St..
Moderate Muslims: What Does it Mean?..
Craigslist Accordion..
Royal Air Maroc: Deal or No Deal?..
You mean people in politics do not necessarily have universi..
Morocco Pays Full Repatriation Fees of a Deceased?..
A Bottom Line or a Red Line Petition?..
Michael Moore On The Planned Islamic Center in New York..
Middle Eastern Gnawa..
Islamophobia on the Rise in America? ..
Heavy Metal Morocco..
The Maghrib that I love..
Some Congressman Blows Up Over National Debt..
Moroccan Avatars I..
The Saidia Beach in Morocco is Angry!..
My Squared Kufi: Family ..
Spiritual Poems Performed by Moroccans..
Palestinian Avatar..
Gmail Buzz..
The Saviors of Humanity in the 21st Century: McAfee of the S..
 
2009
Moroccan Turns Waste into Effective Use..
:) سبب توقف ا..
The Charter To Dismantle The Arabs..
Abd Al-Qadir Al-Jilani: On The Meaning of Ritual Worship and..
A Perspective on Woman Virginity: Sheikh Khaled Al-Joundi..
WHY IS the Arab world -- let us speak with terrible sharpnes..
Lammalless Lands Again Yet Another Funny Video ;) ..
Free-spirited Young Moroccans..
Georges Moustaki: Le Métèque..
Wali of Oujda Giving Students a Final Exam on the First Day ..
Modern Morocco Lives Off Old Baraka..
Algeria Unleashes Its Sitcom Wings: Jam3i Family..
Human Tetris: I haven't laughed like this in a while! :)..
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ZOGO: Rock Fusion Hailing from Algeria Lalaland!..
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From Los Angeles to Casablanca!..
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!..
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Allah Made Me Funny @ Boston..
MPK20: Sun's Virtual Workplace..
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U.S. House Passes Historic Ramadan Resolution..
Looking for Arabic or French to English Translator..
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My Top 5 List of Quran Recitors 2007..
Samurai Jack of Algeria..
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Doodling: Sheikh L7ouma..
How Moroccans Put Together a Government..
Hillareous Cat Wrestles Mouse claymation!..
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2..
ABSOLUTE RAIOO SUMMER 2007 RAI Vol 1..
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Iwighd Adar by Amarg Fusion !!!!..
Alalla Yallali ft. Nabila..
Jews Support the Boston Mosque..
The a la Menthe: Maghreb French RAP..
Ya Ghrib !..... ft. Khaled, Lamine, Rai NB..
Hazzou Bina La3lam: Hajja Hamdaouia!..
Ha Elkass 7loo: Hajja Hamdaouia ft. Hamid..
Boston Moroccan Tennis Club: Mini Tournament 2..
Sidi Hbibi by Mano Negra - the unexpected :)..
Le Bachir ..
Cheb Mami.. L'ancien :) Pas Le Nouveau :(..
Summer Hidden Stress..
Fanfaraï - Rai Cuivre !..
Darouha Biya Mchaw L'Mekka w'Khallawni..
CHEB ANOUAR!..
Zoo Event Organized by Al Huda..
Navigating post-divorce..
Just what is Civic Engagement?..
To Fly Boston <-> Morocco or Not..
Meetings with Moroccan Consultative Council on Human Rights..
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Les Frères Zergui..
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When The Moors Ruled In Europe..
Ya Rassoul..
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Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane..
SKyouz Me While I Light My Spliff!..
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First mnanauk. Then mahdisean!..
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The Road To Guantanamo..
Matejebdoulich by Djenet..
Cuban Chaabi! Guantanamera!!..
Hadj Menouer: El Batoul !..
Parske Ana Nebghi Wahran Bezzaf!..
I declare Moe a Star!..
Ahl Zin El Fassi!..
Morocco on current TV..
My South Park Character!..
Ummah Films on current.tv !! HELP NEEDED..
Ana Smayti Sa3id!..
 
2006
Al-Hawli Jokes..
Zawiya Qadiriya Boudchichiya Open Air Speech..
US Patent by Sa Majeste H. Roi du Maroc..
Jahh Bless Mon! Feeling down to earth tonight!..
Cannot Believe These Idiots!..
NESS LA CITY: All?e Sans Retour! LOL..
When Lotfi Attar Rides Matabkish wave! You Lissann mon!..
KUDOS TO Cheikh Sidi Bemol & Band!!..
No Comment! DARRITOUNI.....
Mortality Meets Online Status..
Michael Richard Busted and Sorry!..
The UMMA Clinic..
Hanane Fadili Take on Shouaffa(tt)..
Hijab: Strict Code or Fashion Barcode ..
To The Fasting Darling..
Rimitti: Ana Li Ghrasset aNakhla....
Reminiscing Tex Avery Cartoons!..
Happiest Guy in Morocco!..
The Super-cool Hanane Fadili..
Cette Affaire d'Avions ? Londres..
Watch 2M Television..
American Muslim Fun Video Blogging!..
Open War in the Middle East?..
Touche Po a Mon Zidane!..
Ronaldinho Joined Zawya....
Marock!..
Draw Live!..
Zoo Animals Need e'space..
Les ABRANIS: Prodigy of Rockabyl..
Sofiane Saidi: Cet Algerien Trip-rai Hopper..
Lemchaheb Legacy ..
Zahra Hindi, Beautiful You!..
Jajouka's Winds of Moroccana..
Google Language Translation: English to/from Arabic..
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Google Shoots Microsoft.. One.. More.... Time!..
Monsieux Mehdi Ben Barka: Un Marocain Assassiné Qui Visait P..
Yale, Taliban and Weld L'Hashemi....
Near-eastern Muslim Scholars..
Three Algerians on Highway =]..
Moroccan Riverdance!..
Moroccan Candle-toe Dance..
Moroccan Qassida: Vraie Poesie!..
LA3MARNA Legacy..
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Alone in the Wilderness..
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Are we a virus..?..
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Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
 
2005
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
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Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
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My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
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2004
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
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2003
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2002
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